Denver Snuffer, Prophet or Scoundrel?
Is Denver Snuffer a false prophet, or is he genuine? Most people dismiss him without pause or consideration. A few investigate him using internet resources, and fewer still actually read what he writes, or listen to one of the many talks he makes available on the internet. Even those most abjectly opposed to the idea of him being a spokesman for God, would have to admit, if they were completely honest, that he is an enigma.
What follows is a transcript of a discussion between two eminent scholars: author and professor of history, Dr. Harold Nibble and LDS Historian, Elder Martin K. Johnson. They discuss the precedence of the Lord calling a prophet outside of an established priesthood hierarchy. The moderator was me, no one really to take any notice of. I was just there to keep things moving and on topic.[i]
Moderator (Mod): Dr. Nibble and Elder Johnson, let me begin first by thanking you for taking the time to come here and discuss the issue of modern prophets and whether we can trust the credentials of men claiming to speak for the Lord. This is a very important topic that has, I guess you can say, eternal consequences for everyone. Let me just set the scene and turn it over to the both of you for your insights.
In Mathew 24, the Lord teaches the Apostles that the temple and Jerusalem will be destroyed. He applies His description of destruction to a distant time just prior to His second coming. One of the first things he does in this discourse is to warn the apostles, “take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.” And a little later He says again, “And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.” And for a third time states, “Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth:” (Matt 24:4-5,11,23-28)
The Lord warns us three times in fairly quick succession against false prophets. What does this scripture indicate about how the Lord views prophets in the times to come? Is he saying beware of all prophets? Or only false prophets? How do you differentiate between true and false ones?
Johnson: One thing to take note of in this discourse of the Savior, He clearly differentiates between prophets and “false prophets”. He does this by clearly singling out “false prophets”. It seems to me that if the Savior wanted us to ignore all prophets whatsoever, He would not have singled out false ones.
Nibble: I agree.
Johnson: He left the door open for prophets to appear in the last days. In fact, there are scriptures in the old testament that identify prophets to come forward in the last days. I am thinking of Isaiah chapter 11 (Isaiah 11:10-11), Isaiah 29 where Isaiah talks about the reprovers that will come in the last days (Is. 29:21), and of course everyone knows Amos 3:7. There are many other scriptures in the Bible that refer to prophets and the need for prophets in every age. Oh, and I just remembered Isaiah writing, “How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publish peace” and something about the watchmen lifting their voice.
Nibble: I think that is chapter 52. (Is. 52:7-8) We can add several verses in Ezekiel and Jeremiah referring to watchmen needed in the last days. (Jer. 31:6; Ezekiel 3:17; 33:7).
Mod: So I think we have established that there is accommodation made in the Bible for the appearance of prophets in the last days. I would like to add that Revelation chapter 11 speaks of two prophets who will be killed in Jerusalem in the days just preceding the coming of Christ. Is there room for more than one prophet at a time? And can a prophet be called that is not part of the established priesthood hierarchy? This is, of course, in deference to Denver Snuffer’s, and perhaps other’s, claims that they were called personally by the Savior outside of any recognized church authorities.
Johnson: The Lord established His church in modern times through Joseph Smith and gave him keys to administer the kingdom of God on the earth. Before he was killed, he passed those keys on to the twelve apostles. In the Doctrine and Covenants the Lord established that the quorum of the twelve is equal in authority and power to the first presidency. (D&C 107:24) When Joseph died, the administration of the church passed to the Quorum of Twelve Apostles. This was in keeping with the plan of succession that the Lord set up through Joseph Smith. As the designated representative of the Lord’s established church and kingdom on the earth, all revelation would come through the Lord’s designated representative.
Nibble: I am not so sure that what you are saying can be verified by the historical record, nor even by the Doctrine and Covenants.
Johnson: Well, it is on record that Joseph was constantly reproving people who took it upon themselves to give revelation to the church, which was usually in the manner of reproof to the church and its leaders. Section 28 establishes that Joseph Smith is the only one to receive revelations for the church. The keys of receiving revelation for the church were passed on to each succeeding president of the church. There is simply no provision by the Lord for prophets to be called who are not ordained through the presiding authorities established by the Lord to administer His church on the earth today.
Nibble: It is true Joseph was appointed as the president of the church, and was called by the Lord to be prophet, seer, and revelator. In one revelation the Lord declared that only Joseph could receive commandments for the church, but there is no scripture, no record of the keys given him by the Lord being passed on to the Quorum of the Twelve. And there is no prohibition against other prophets being called by the Lord. The only prohibition is that Joseph is the only one who can receive “commandments” for the church. Joseph often chided the people for always coming to him for revelation. They needed to receive their own revelation from the Lord.
Johnson: We have the testimony of quite a number of men who state that Joseph gave all the keys to the Quorum of Twelve Apostles shortly before he was killed. And it is true that the Lord wants all of his people to receive revelation from Him directly, but only within the limits of the keys that have been given them.
Nibble: Okay, what you have is only a tradition, and the word of some of the twelve apostles themselves, that Joseph gave them the keys. It is unfortunate that we do not have any contemporary record this took place. We only have testimony given 30 or 40 years later, and only given in reaction to problems posed by opponents as to the question of the apostles having been given any authority to administer church affairs. In fact, some of the apostles that testified witnessing that Joseph give them the keys were not even present in Nauvoo when this was alleged to have occurred. Also, and most damning, the minutes of the meeting where this investiture took place makes no mention of such a momentous occurrence. (Minutes of the council of 50)
Johnson: The success and growth of the church bear witness to the Lord’s support for his church after Joseph died. Conferring the keys to the Apostles was in keeping with the plan of succession that the Lord set up through Joseph Smith. The Lord established the church government this way so that people would know with certainty who spoke for the Lord, and who were false prophets. We avoid confusion and corruption in the church when the Lord makes his will known through one single ordained and anointed prophet. The Lord gave the keys to Joseph and to the twelve apostles in D&C 112…here it is in verse 15. The Lord is talking directly to Thomas Marsh, who was the president of the quorum of apostles at the time. “Exalt not yourselves; rebel not against my servant Joseph; for verily I say unto you, I am with him, and my hand shall be over him; and the keys which I have given unto him, and also to you ward, shall not be taken from him till I come.” The keys remain with the Quorum of the Twelve, which Joseph gave “to you ward”.
Nibble: You should read that verse in context to understand what the Lord is really saying. In verse 16 the Lord goes on to say: “Verily I say unto you, my servant Thomas, thou art the man whom I have chosen to hold the keys of my kingdom, as pertaining to the Twelve, abroad among all nations—“. The Twelve were never given authority over the stakes during Joseph’s life time. They only had authority over the missions. In short, the idea that the presiding president of the Quorum of Twelve holds all keys and has sole authority to act in God’s name on the earth has no scriptural backing. I think the question as to whether the Lord can and does call other prophets, outside of the LDS General Authorities, to warn and teach is a valid and important question to ponder.
Johnson: Joseph was told the keys would never be taken from him until the Lord comes. By extension that means that his successor would hold those exclusive keys.
Nibble: It could also mean exactly what the scripture says; the keys “shall not be taken from him till I come.” Joseph still holds those keys. He did not pass them on, indeed, he was not given that power to pass them on. He was only given the ability to name his successor, which he did- Hyrum.
Stay tuned for Part 2. Things will really get interesting.
[i] The names are fictitious, any resemblance to persons living is only a coincidence. This transcription is of a discussion that in a better world could happen but probably will never take place.