Denver Snuffer, Prophet or Scoundrel? Part 3 – Final.

This is the third and final post on prophets and whether the Lord would call someone not part of the LDS hierarchy like Denver Snuffer to speak on His behalf.  (Dr. Nibble and Elder Johnson are not real people, but they represent real opposing ideas)

Mod: I think that leads us finally to talk about Denver Snuffer, and other prophets that the Lord might call that are not part of the established church hierarchy.  Is his message valid? Should we pay attention?

Nibble: If I may, there is a story told by Josephus in Wars of the Jews of a man named Jesus, son of Ananus, who appeared in Jerusalem four years before the war with the Romans which resulted in Jerusalem’s destruction. He appears suddenly in the market place, and actually climbs on to the walls of the city (shades of Samuel the Lamanite?) and declares these words: “A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against this whole people.” He repeated this everyday for seven years. He was like a wild man in their midst. He died by a Roman arrow on the wall of the city in the last year of the siege.

I tell that story because it is an example that you have probably not heard of, that the Lord always sends multiple messengers to warn and cajole people into repenting before destruction overtakes a people.  And they are never part of the establishment, for a reason.  We live in a time of great peril, a time that immediately precedes what the Lord says will be terrible.  Even the elect will be deceived.  There will be multiple prophets, many and from various backgrounds and customs. And there will be false prophets- who, according to Isaiah, Ezekiel, Alma and Jacob usually tell the public that all is well.  Are there any prophets recently that have told that all is well?

D&C 46:15-16 talks about the differences of administration and diversities of operations in the way the Holy Spirit is manifested.  The Lord does not communicate exclusively to His people through one voice.  The need for more than one prophet to prophesy also answers to the law of witnesses. And I have to say, the witnesses called by the Lord will always be rejected by established churches because they are not telling a message the leadership agrees with, and the prophet was not sanctioned by them and thereby  are unable to control the message.  When a messenger, a prophet, becomes popular, that is a warning sign.  So a true prophet’s message will never be popular, and will be accepted by very few.

Maybe you don’t think Denver Snuffer is a prophet sent by God, but, based on the way the Lord has always done things, there will always be someone like Denver who will come.  Those prophets will not be favored by church authorities. The idea of a Denver Snuffer is worth investigating.

Mod: It sounds like you are saying that the idea of having only one prophet, who is part of established religion, is not the normal, but actually the exception?

Nibble: I actually can’t think of another time when those conditions existed except when a church was under a Pope, or a very strong controlling central authority.  Even Joseph Smith tried to introduce the idea that the Lord wanted to create a society of priests; prophets able to know Christ and have revelations without having to go to him.  The same with Moses, but the people would have none of it in both generations.

Mod: Elder Johnson, how would you respond to that?

Johnson: I just want to say that you have heard a very convincing argument that the Lord doesn’t work through the channels that he specifically set up through Joseph Smith by revelation. The keys that were given to Joseph to administer the Kingdom of God on earth in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints have been preserved and handed down through men that have been prepared to serve as the Lord’s prophets.  It is the Lord’s method by which you can be assured of salvation. He wants you to look to the prophet that he has anointed to lead his church.  Denver Snuffer, and any other man or woman who pretends to speak for the Lord, will, in the end, be revealed to be false.  We have so many false prophets come and go, and they all have proven to be wolves in sheep’s clothing. By always looking to the presidency you can be assured that you will always be able to know what the Lord’s desire is for you. The Lord’s prophet will never lead you astray

Nibble: I think it is important to define the term “prophet”. Joseph Smith said that a prophet is a prophet when he acts like one, i.e., receives revelation from God.  D&C 107:91-92 says, “And again, the duty of the President of the office of the High Priesthood is to preside over the whole church, and to be like unto Moses- Behold, here is wisdom; yea to be a seer, a revelator, a translator, and a prophet.”  When was the last time you heard a prophecy by the president of the church, or when did he last translate or reveal sacred writings? You never have in your lifetime. Here is a statement by Joseph F. Smith, when he was president of the church, that summarizes the current state of leadership in the LDS Church. “I have never pretended, nor do I profess to have received revelations.  I never said I had a revelation except so far as God has shown to me that so called Mormonism is God’s divine truth; that is all.” (Reed Smoot Hearings, 1904).

Johnson: We have the revelation on lifting the priesthood ban in 1978 by Spencer W. Kimball.

Nibble: The truth behind that revelation is that President Kimball did not receive a revelation.  After attempting to get a revelation from God over several years trying, he resorted to asking God to speak to him if that was not His will.

Johnson: I think that qualifies as revelation.  The Lord works by influencing the actions and thoughts of His prophets.

Nibble: That is true, but a prophet should be a little more certain in his communication with God.  Now contrast the experience of the members of the LDS church over the years since Joseph F. Smith with prophecy, and look at the claims that Denver Snuffer has made.  He is saying that he has talked to the Lord. Met him face to face and been given instruction.  He has claimed to have been taught directly by heaven.

Johnson: As have many false prophets.

Nibble: But have you tested his words? Have you gone to the Lord and asked Him if he is a true prophet?

Johnson: I don’t have to.  I know he is a false prophet.  I have not read any of his books or blog posts. The Lord does not operate outside the church authorities that sit in Joseph Smith’s seat. That is the only test that matters.

Nibble: Well, all I can say to that is that the scriptures speak otherwise.  And a truly correct test would be to ask the Lord directly. Elder Johnson, I would like to refer you to John 7:17.

Mod: We have come to the end of our time together.  It has been a wonderful discussion. I would like to give each of you the opportunity to say a last few words.

Johnson: I would like to conclude my remarks by  bearing you my solemn testimony that the Lord directs his church through his prophet, the president of the church. Joseph Smith established the Lord’s church which will not be removed or supplanted until the Lord comes in glory before the Millennium. The government of the kingdom of God that Joseph set up before he was martyred was set up to ensure a continuity of receiving the Lord’s revealed word through the presidency of the church. I cannot stress enough that anyone outside of that established protocol who says that he has the words of Christ, is a false prophet.  And you follow him at your peril. Stay with the church, the authorities have the words of life.

Nibble:   I would like to conclude by offering this bit of advice: “prove all things”. If there is anything of good report seek after it to know if it is true.  The Lord’s pattern in scripture allows His word to be revealed through men and women who probably are not associated or called through existing church hierarchies, especially in times where the Lord is about to pour out judgement upon those people. Yes, there will be false prophets, and yes,  it requires the individual to inquire of the Lord directly to ascertain the truth of their message. The doctrine of infallibility of the president of the church is not scriptural.  He can and will lead you astray.  It has been a requirement of every generation to try the prophets and to determine truth by the Holy Spirit and not trust solely in the arm of flesh. Denver Snuffer fits the profile and role of every true prophet the Lord has sent to warn people in every age.  His role is to warn and advise, but not to rule and coerce people to believe.  If you reject his message out of hand without even a cursory read of his message, then you are not following the Lord’s admonition through Paul to ”prove all things”.

Mod: Thank you Elder Johnson and Dr. Nibble for this engaging discussion.

An interesting discussion, don’t you think? So much confusion and chaos about what to believe and who to believe. Both experts had some good points, but my sympathies lay with Dr. Nibble.  The stance of the LDS church is really untenable when compared with the scriptures and the writings of Joseph Smith.  There has not been a single revelation that stands the test of time from LDS church authorities since Joseph Smith. In stark contrast, you have Denver Snuffer who has made some extraordinary claims.  Claims that are unique, even if you consider all the claims from false prophets in modern times. They are extraordinary enough that they bear looking into.